ihmsa forums

Philip,

When I ran the numbers (as best one could given that the Internationals is mixed in with everything else) on the 2012 OKC Internationals it lost money. That is even with no range fees to OKC. Of course, we all know that Fort Stockton in 2013 was a bust just by the number of entries shot there.

Given that OKC lost money in 2012. Given that membership is lower in 2014 than 2012. There is no reason to believe that 2014 in OKC will come close to breaking even unless you are in Colorado & visiting one of those new wave "tobaccie" stores they have there. So, Philip, you are right on the money. Now, will the Board have the courage to ax the match? Doubtful.

Steve W.

Here's what we need to do to change the silhouette game and increase participation. It would be shot on the .22 course, so no hand-loading or super-duper ram loads are necessary, thus keeping the game simple. Let's call the new game IHMSA Run And Gun. Of course, the newspaper name would also be changed to reflect the new competition, call it The IHMSA RAG. The game will have 5 targets at each berm.

You would start at the firing line in the standing position. At the Fire command, grab your shooting box and ammo, run 20 yards towards the chickens, drop into the prone position 5 yards away and with your weak hand, shoot 5 chickens. Fastest time wins this stage, as with all the other stages.

Next, grab your stuff, run another 20 yards towards the pig line. From the standing position, shoot the 2 pigs on the left first, then the 2 pigs on the right, finishing with the pig in the middle. Repeat this course of fire 10 times.

On to the turkeys now. After another 20 yard sprint, drop to the prone position and shoot the first turkey, do a tactical reload, then shoot the next turkey, continuing this process until all 5 turkeys are down.

Now on to the final exciting stage. Race to the turkey berm, staying below the top of the berm so the rams can't see you. Load the gun and pop up, double-tapping the first ram, then duck down below the top of the berm. Pop up again, double-tapping the second ram, then continue on like this to the 5th ram. If you fail to knock down a ram with your double-tap, all rams are reset and you must start over. Fastest time on the complete course wins the game and a complete $5000 silhouette race gun setup, which the local club will provide, absorbing all the costs without using any raffle tickets.

There you go...the IHMSA Run And Gun competition.

How in the heck can internationals be the major drain on IHMSA? The way I separate income and expenses for the years 2007-2012 show the internationals as making money. I include sanction fee income as a source of international income because we have to shoot to qualify for internationals, but even when I take that out, internationals made money 4 out of 6 years. If you take just the entry fees for internationals and subtract all the expenses I allocate to internationals it is profitable 4 of 6 years. I just don't see why people are so insistent that internationals needs to go when that is the match I work for every year. If we go to coastal championships that will cut the number of people I get to see once a year in half, and I don't even know if the Kiwis are east coast or west coast. When we've lost on average $15,616.53 dollars a year in those 6 years, I think cutting a profitable event, breakeven at the very worst, is misguided.

Troy, with all due respect - how can your figures be correct ? Sanction fees and membership dues are used to cover our day-to-day expenses - HQ salaries, printing, postage, etc. If your figures are correct - we must have someone that is stealing funds ! You cannot use sanction fees and membership dues to figure expenses for the Internationals ! If the Internationals are not self-sustaining - we need to give it a hard, honest look as one thing we can do to cut expenses.

IHMSA80x80 wrote:Here's what we need to do to change the silhouette game and increase participation. It would be shot on the .22 course, so no hand-loading or super-duper ram loads are necessary, thus keeping the game simple. Let's call the new game IHMSA Run And Gun. Of course, the newspaper name would also be changed to reflect the new competition, call it The IHMSA RAG. The game will have 5 targets at each berm.

You would start at the firing line in the standing position. At the Fire command, grab your shooting box and ammo, run 20 yards towards the chickens, drop into the prone position 5 yards away and with your weak hand, shoot 5 chickens. Fastest time wins this stage, as with all the other stages.

Next, grab your stuff, run another 20 yards towards the pig line. From the standing position, shoot the 2 pigs on the left first, then the 2 pigs on the right, finishing with the pig in the middle. Repeat this course of fire 10 times.

On to the turkeys now. After another 20 yard sprint, drop to the prone position and shoot the first turkey, do a tactical reload, then shoot the next turkey, continuing this process until all 5 turkeys are down.

Now on to the final exciting stage. Race to the turkey berm, staying below the top of the berm so the rams can't see you. Load the gun and pop up, double-tapping the first ram, then duck down below the top of the berm. Pop up again, double-tapping the second ram, then continue on like this to the 5th ram. If you fail to knock down a ram with your double-tap, all rams are reset and you must start over. Fastest time on the complete course wins the game and a complete $5000 silhouette race gun setup, which the local club will provide, absorbing all the costs without using any raffle tickets.

There you go...the IHMSA Run And Gun competition.

Dean - you so crazy !

TEFREY wrote:How in the heck can internationals be the major drain on IHMSA? The way I separate income and expenses for the years 2007-2012 show the internationals as making money. I include sanction fee income as a source of international income because we have to shoot to qualify for internationals, but even when I take that out, internationals made money 4 out of 6 years. If you take just the entry fees for internationals and subtract all the expenses I allocate to internationals it is profitable 4 of 6 years. I just don't see why people are so insistent that internationals needs to go when that is the match I work for every year. If we go to coastal championships that will cut the number of people I get to see once a year in half, and I don't even know if the Kiwis are east coast or west coast. When we've lost on average $15,616.53 dollars a year in those 6 years, I think cutting a profitable event, breakeven at the very worst, is misguided.

This goes back to a restructuring of the organization. The idea that the international match loses money due to the fact that it doesn't cover 3/4ths of the expenses of the entire organization in one week is absurd. For example, our second biggest match, the WCC, makes money because it is about covering expenses for that match. Same with any other state or regional match. So to dump all these other expenses on the internationals, and thus expect it to make a profit, is absurd. There are operating expenses during the year that should be incurred throughout the year, and throughout the organizational process. So if it is not set up in a manner to meet those shortcomings, something obviously should be adjusted. I agree with Steve in that this thread has gone on long enough… we all have ideas, but griping about it among ourselves on this forum which few of the "powers that be" ever look at is kind of a waste of time. I appreciate Steve taking an appropriate course of action and think all of our efforts would be better directed towards those that can/do make the decisions and then see what happens. But I do have to disagree with the people that blame the internationals--get rid of it, the overhanging expenses of the organization are still there, and there will be much less participation if there isn't that central event. This is my second straight year of shooting over 100 entires, and if there wasn't a national/international shoot to focus those efforts on, then I would shoot my 20-30 local entries a year and call it good. There would be no growth of the sport, no interaction with people from different states/regions/countries, and it wouldn't take long before the many of us that meet once or twice a year at centralized locations due to our love of the sport and appreciation of each other, that aspect would simply disappear. Lose the Internationals, and this sport is done almost immediately.

and that is where we need to direct our attention--Steve had mentioned several times about the accounting part of the internationals, maybe they should hear it from a few more of us. I would ask anyone who has spent time on this thread to better focus their efforts by directing to the editorial of the next IHMSA News, as you know any thoughts directed here pretty much stay here and aren't heard by most of those that are making the decisions in this organization. It would take no virtually no extra effort from an accounting standpoint to do what Steve has asked for previously.

Dean,

I know that I can run faster than you which should make up for a the fact that you shoot better than me.
I say do it at Crittenden. I could use a $5000 gun.

Jim K

I just wanted to add an update to one of my previous posts in this thread. Questions have been asked and opinions offered about how we can keep IHMSA alive. One thing is for sure, if we can't keep the local matches going, there will be no future for our sport. Here in Louisiana, attendance at our matches has slowly dwindled to the point that we often have only 2-4 live bodies at a match. Make no mistake, I will continue to host matches even if only my brother and I show up. But I had a desperate desire to get more people to shoot with us to help keep us viable. The step I took this year has so far doubled participation, at least at our first match of 2014 this past Sunday. It has done nothing to grow IHMSA per se, but it will help keep our little club going. I invited the NRA Cowboy Rifle Silhouette
shooters to come and shoot alongside us. We had 4 IHMSA members and 5 NRA Cowboy shooters on hand. Like I said, this does not really directly grow IHMSA...........but it does wonders to help our small struggling club stay afloat. And like I said, without the local clubs hosting matches, there is no IHMSA. This easy one step is so far working for us here.

Unless there is an armed revolution that will take over IHMSA Hdqtrs nothing will change!!! Who will fire the first shot?