ihmsa forums

There are a few gents from out-of-state who employ interesting "legal" modifications to the flop position. The following occurred recently: Does the above photo show a legal flop position?

Are towels or ammo boxes under your support hand(s) considered "artificial support"?

From the 2016 rules (latest that I have):
A. Freestyle
...
2. The Freestyle shooting position shall be any safe shooting position without artificial support. The handgun may only come in contact with the competitor’s body, clothing and/or blast shield.

SECTION X: Miscellaneous Rules
for Competition
...
2. Not Allowed: The following equipment, accessories, actions are not allowed:
A) Artificial rests or supports (see Practical Hunter), slings, padded or unnecessarily heavy clothing, or any kind of wrist or arm supports or bracelets.

a pic from the other side would have been better.

The only thing I can see is his front hand on forend and one finger is wrapped around something on Forend. I am no expert on Flop, but that may be classified as illegal.

Edit: Is that stock Maybe a 'Masters stock' which would have an extra Grip handle on the forend?

He may be resting the fore end on the top of his hand. If the stock has a vertical foregrip - it would be illegal per ATF. This is where "appearance" is going to get us in trouble with this !! As it sits -and without knowing how his stock is configured - I would judge that his shooting position is legal !

The pic here is for a Masters Gun. There was another older style that had 2 grips, but it has since disappeared. These stocks are illegal due to this rule (10.B) in the Unlimited section:

10. Stocks and fore ends shall be generally traditional in design and shall meet all criteria of the US Tobacco and Firearms regulations for a handgun fore end. Custom stocks and fore ends are allowed provided they are not configured in such a way to act as a shooting aid.
A) Custom stocks and fore ends are allowed provided they are not configured in such a way to act as a shooting aid (i.e. specifically contoured to fit body anatomy).
B) Designs that allow grasping the fore end at an angle greater then 60 degrees from the bore line are not allowed.
C) Adjustable stocks are allowed, provided the adjusted configuration meets all other IHMSA rules.
If it does not have that front grip, it should be legal. As for resting gun on an ammo box, I am not sure

just need a better pic of other side.

As long as the gun is in contact with some portion of the arm/hand (as per the rule) and not what is under the arm/hand: Legal. No "artificial support".
Shooting mats are legal and there is no stipulation as to the thickness of the mat (yet??). A mattress could be construed as a shooting mat. If you are having to shoot up-hill and your fingers aren't long enough to get the gun elevated properly, what do you do?
The photo quality does not allow for any really meaningful explanation what's going on.

To answer the question....Yes it’s a legal position.Looks really uncomfortable though.....
But that doesn’t mean everything is legal,there’s too much unseen in the picture,Nutcase is correct,you’ll need a pic of the other side.I’ve have had shooters come to me & say,so & so is shooting illegal! I either send a experience club member down to investigate or I go my self.In the big matches,I get a match director,State or Region director,who ever is available.
Time to get the match directors involved!

braud357 wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:06 am He may be resting the fore end on the top of his hand. If the stock has a vertical foregrip - it would be illegal per ATF. This is where "appearance" is going to get us in trouble with this !! As it sits -and without knowing how his stock is configured - I would judge that his shooting position is legal !

Exactly right!

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forest341 wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 5:38 pm Oklahoma City Gun Club has a number of elevated shooting platforms just like the one used by the shooter in the photo. When I asked out loud to a bunch of shooters during a cease fire if we could use them, someone very quickly and with much certainty said "NO, those are only legal to use if a shooter has a physical disability".

There are several clubs that have only elevated shooting positions,or just a position for Creedmore or dead frog.OKCGC was one in the early years.
OKCGC has several Physical disability bench’s,and they are adjustable for a certain disability,and not just elevated.
The head can be raised or lowered to suit the competitors.The match director is the one to see.

Am I understanding correctly, that the rules allow you to rest your hand on say, an ammo box, and then rest your stock on your hand, as long as your stock doesn't touch the ammo box? Has any body seen this happen at the Internationals?

Thanks,
Rick