Unlimited Guns & Stock Configuration

[Shoot2Thrill]

At the recent IHMSA Board meeting, there was discussion regarding the latitude that some shooters have taken with their stocks in the various Unlimited categories. The relevant rule from Section VI: Handguns, paragraph 2, is as follows:

“Stocks and fore ends shall be generally traditional in design and shall meet all criteria of the US Tobacco and Firearms regulations for a handgun fore end. Custom stocks and fore ends are allowed provided they are not configured is such a way to act as a shooting aid.
Custom stocks and fore ends are allowed provided they are not configured is such a way to act as a shooting aid (i.e. Specifically contoured to fit body anatomy).”

The issue before the board was that this rule was not being followed, and several shooters have been lax in abiding by it. There had been several reports of unlimited guns with concave underside that is contoured to fit the back of the wrist when fired from the flop position. Rules Chairman Dell Taylor confirmed that this indeed constituted an illegal stock when fired from the flop position.

The board recognized that some shooters may have unknowingly patterned their stocks by imitating other shooters, without consulting the rule book. As such, the Board approved that no immediate action to Disqualify or Protest such guns would be taken, but rather to advise shooters and match directors that this rule would be strictly enforced starting Jan 1, 2021.

[braud357]

Just a suggestion - you need to be VERY specific as to what is and what is not legal. Descriptions AND illustrations would be very helpful. We need specifics, because by what you are describing, some of these stocks have been in use for at least 10 years ! If you want this rule enforced - we need to know more ! Philip Braud La. State Director IHMSA #13794
PS: I have a feeling that this is going to "tee-off" a lot of shooters, especially "flop" shooters ! With this interpretation, a H-S stock or Pachmayr grip could be considered a "shooting aid" !!

[JACKIE40X40]

Just a suggestion - you need to be VERY specific as to what is and what is not legal. Descriptions AND illustrations would be very helpful. We need specifics, because by what you are describing, some of these stocks have been in use for at least 10 years ! If you want this rule enforced - we need to know more ! Philip Braud La. State Director IHMSA #13794
PS: I have a feeling that this is going to "tee-off" a lot of shooters, especially "flop" shooters ! With this interpretation, a H-S stock or Pachmayr grip could be considered a "shooting aid" !!

Exactly right,& they’ve been around since 2004.

[260 Striker]

Why is the Unlimited category have stock restrictions as long as they follow the BATF designations for a legal handgun. After all this is why it is called unlimited. I remembered reading about a shooter with a handicap that had a very unique bolt gun built so he could compete in IHMSA. I am sure he had special modifications on his stock. If this rule has not been enforced for about 10 years then it is not worth the words in the rule book. Also I think it is BATF who are defining a handgun. Many of the aftermarket stocks have been contoured for either a right or left handed shooter. Would that constitute a rule violation? Would this also apply to PH? Opening a can of worms.

[Shoot2Thrill]

Thank you for the suggestions. This topic really revolves around one design seen on many flop stocks. The design of the stock is concaved on the bottom side and runs parallel to the barrel. I heard one competitor describe this design as riding really nice over here as he pointed to his curved wrist as if in the flop position. That comment acknowledges the stock was contoured to body anatomy. This does not disqualify the gun entirely because it could be used in other positions like creedmore where it would not contour body anatomy. It could still be used in flop if it was moved down the person's forearm and not riding over the wrist.

That brings to mind another conversation I had with a competitor who was concerned about scrapping or reshaping his stocks. I told him to leave the gun alone and move it to ride over his forearm. He told me how difficult it would be to keep the gun level because of the angle the arm may be to get on target. I said it sucks because that's what I just dealt with while shooting 500 meter.

I'm primarily a standing shooter and now dabbling in flop. I enjoy it. 500 meter was a blast. I just shot a 39 in uasfs with a contender in flop. I couldn't have done that in creedmore because I can't comfortably get into that position. My wife, April, probably would not be shooting if it were not for flop. Her confidence and excitement increased dramatically when she switched from creedmore to flop because of the increase in X count. When she first started flop, I had her shooting a banana type forend that rolled (contoured) around her forearm very nice. We were very quickly told that forend was illegal because it contoured her body anatomy. The forend can be used in creedmore and be legal though.

Shooting is full of shooting aids and IHMSA is no different. Taco hoods, tank brakes, peep sights, textured grips, high power rifle scopes, etc are permitted per the rules depending on the category. Pachmayr grips are traditional in design and are not custom made to fit body anatomy. It is a handgun grip, and hands have fingers hence the finger groove grip.

I have been told that taco hoods should be illegal. Taco hold is like the flop of standing class. For the most part and all things considered, it is easier to get a higher X count shooting Taco rather than weaver stance. The same could be said for flop vs creedmore. However, both taco and flop are permitted per the rules. The equipment to shoot those positions such as taco hoods, muzzle brakes, peep sights, and rifle scopes are permitted.

I believe that UAS should be only in BB half scale and SB fifth scale. I believe that practical hunter is anything but practical. Even though, it's a success category, and my wife loves to shoot it. I believe the new PH proposal already has a few homes within our categories, PH and UAS. I believe that tank brakes should be illegal. I do not believe that unlimited category means open the barn doors and have at it. Unlimited is the name of an IHMSA category.

Now that you have read about my beliefs and could give a hoot less, the same could be said for me. Please do not take that the wrong way. I respect the veterans of this game and their contributions. Most of you have many more years and experience than I do. Concerning this topic, it is not about beliefs. This rule enforcement is not personal. It is identifying a disregard/oversight for the rules or a mimic of another competitor as some of these stocks are used with the intent to contour body anatomy. From what I understand, stocks like this with a concave contour parallel to the barrel have been used for many years and well before my time in IHMSA. So, you guys deal with it; I'm out. All joking aside, I would love to have pictures posted of what we are discussing. If you have a stock as described and willing to post pictures in use, then please do so. I do not have accessibility to the described stock. Thank you for the respectful discussion.

[braud357]

To clarify what I wrote about this - lets make every effort to be as clear about this as possible, to avoid any further "misunderstanding" ! My only other question - why has it taken so long for someone to "speak up" about this "infraction" ? Jackie, how will this affect the Okie "flop" shooters ??

[JACKIE40X40]

By Jim Fields.

LETTER Doug & Rich-7-31-2020.docx

(22.09 KiB) Downloaded 457 times

[contender1121]

+1

[contender1121]

By Jim Fields.LETTER Doug & Rich-7-31-2020.docx

+1

[bkraft]

What Jim said.