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[260 Striker]

Somehow (I wish I knew how) we need to let new people know how much fun it is to shoot silhouettes. In the early days we shot for prize money or trophies and paid out more than first place depending upon the number of shooters in each category and class. When we had 15+ entries in a class the payback could be several times the entry fee. Some of the same people won every month and were actually making money shooting IHMSA. When the cap on payback was put on several years several top shooters quit shooting since it no longer paid them to shoot. The rest of us just kept shooting since we were having fun. I still come to matches with new guns, new loads, no sight settings and still have a hoot. What has bothered me most over the years is how our organization evolved after Elgin's death. I knew Elgin was in charge and had to live with his dictates. Most were good for the sport so IHMSA flourished. When he died we were made to believe IHMSA would be more open to the membership and we would all have more say in our sport. That didn't happen. We just shifted from one person controlling the sport to elected (?) or appointed officials that didn't think the general membership needed to know what was going on in the day to day workings of the organization. There is still an inner core in IHMSA that seems to be separated from the general membership. I applaud anyone serving in any formal postion in IHMSA and will support all officials but there is still a feeling of secrecy in our organization. Seems like lots of hush, hush stuff going on the last few years. I have just resolved myself to support our local clubs since that is the grass roots of our sport. I suspect every club and MD around the country is doing the same thing. Just the mention of additional side shoots should indicate the local clubs are more in tune with the needs/wants of local shooters. I know IHMSA is still fun for me but I don't know how to pass that feeling onto new shooters. I refuse to give up on IHMSA even though my age is catching up with me and my shooting is not what it used to be.

[kg4tyr]

I should have been more specific here, keep the classes as there are now and add one callled "PROFESSIONAL" for each category. That class alone would shoot for cash. No b-a-a-aa-aa-int, just leave them as they are now. If you shot in any professional class you would be ineligble to shoot in any of the non money classes at that event and vice versa.

That makes more sense, now that you put it like that. Would these "professional" shooters be required to shoot only in the professional category, once they've entered it the first time. Or would they be able to come to the next match and shoot in the amateur classes if they wanted. If something like this was incorporated, my feeling is, once a professional, they stay that way through the calender year. At that point if they wanted, they could go back to shooting amateur for the new year. Does this make sense?

[kg4tyr]

Back when IHMSA started there was a REAL production class. Now the class is dominated by custom 1 offs of "production guns" To shoot revolver now you have to have a 2k Freedom Arms to be competitive. I say lets shoot for cash!

Why isn't the production, revolver, etc classes ran like air pistol with a maximum MSRP on the guns allowed in the class. That way shooters aren't buying their scores. This may also open up a little more participation from the manufacturers, knowing their guns MUST be used and will be competitve.

[braud357]

Hey 260, where did you shoot where they paid prize money ?? I remember one of Elgin's mottos, that IHMSA silhouette shooting would ALWAYS be an amateur sport. We did have prizes at our state matches, and trophys or ribbons at our monthly matches. The only "money" matches that I recall were the original Sun Shoots that were held in Florida. Elgin pulled their sanction because they paid cash prizes - if I remember correctly.

[braud357]

Back when IHMSA started there was a REAL production class. Now the class is dominated by custom 1 offs of "production guns" To shoot revolver now you have to have a 2k Freedom Arms to be competitive. I say lets shoot for cash!

Why isn't the production, revolver, etc classes ran like air pistol with a maximum MSRP on the guns allowed in the class. That way shooters aren't buying their scores. This may also open up a little more participation from the manufacturers, knowing their guns MUST be used and will be competitve.

A price limit for production guns was put in place in the middle to late 1980's - it was a VERY unpopular rule at the time, and was rescinded after a couple of years. Many had said that Elgin pushed the price cap to get distribution rights for some of the newer guns being developed, namely MOA and Freedom Arms. Concerning increased participation from gun manufacturers - that bridge has already been burned. We are such a small part of the gun-buying market, that no one is interested in making a silhouette-suitable handgun. TC catered to us for YEARS, only to see their market share lost to MOA, BF, and even Freedon Arms. People of means will ALWAYS buy the best toys available. TC did not leave the silhouette market - we left TC !

[19 Turkeys]

The reason there is a price cap in Air Pistol Production is because air pistols are all basically the same barrel length, overall length, weight, etc. The only truly distinguishing feature is price. There is one exception, the TAU Silhouette with a longer barrel.

I helped write the AIR rules, and we struggled to find a way to distinguish between Production & Unlimited without using a price cap, but we just could not find a way to do it. Implementing the price cap for Production in AIR brought a plethora of complaints.

Steve W.

[kg4tyr]

Back when IHMSA started there was a REAL production class. Now the class is dominated by custom 1 offs of "production guns" To shoot revolver now you have to have a 2k Freedom Arms to be competitive. I say lets shoot for cash!

Why isn't the production, revolver, etc classes ran like air pistol with a maximum MSRP on the guns allowed in the class. That way shooters aren't buying their scores. This may also open up a little more participation from the manufacturers, knowing their guns MUST be used and will be competitve.

A price limit for production guns was put in place in the middle to late 1980's - it was a VERY unpopular rule at the time, and was rescinded after a couple of years. Many had said that Elgin pushed the price cap to get distribution rights for some of the newer guns being developed, namely MOA and Freedom Arms.

I was out of the sport at that time, so I didn't know that. But lets face it, if we do get a new shooter interested, and he talks to someone about that awesome revolver he's using to wipe out all 40 targets, then finds out it cost $2K. He'll probably never come back. But if he sees he can compete with others using a gun to hit 25-35 targets (which he already owns) we may have picked up another active shooter + his friends.

[19 Turkeys]

But if he sees he can compete with others using a gun to hit 25-35 targets (which he already owns) we may have picked up another active shooter + his friends.

The person I compete against is me! New shooters should be concentrating on improving their scores with whatever handgun they bring. It is imperative that current members not disparage the handgun a new shooter brings to a match. Make them welcome and help them improve. Hell, I shot a 40 today in Air Pistol UAS using a $375 air pistol and shot the same score as those with a $2,000 pistol. Price does not always matter! I lost in the shoot-off, but that was me & not the gun.

Steve W.

[kg4tyr]

The person I compete against is me! New shooters should be concentrating on improving their scores with whatever handgun they bring. It is imperative that current members not disparage the handgun a new shooter brings to a match. Make them welcome and help them improve.Steve W.

I won't argue your point, but everyone likes to win. I personally have no one to shoot against at my matches and my goal is to finally hit 40 (I'm stuck at 39). But when I do, then I will compete against a couple other guys and I WILL want to win. I really do just enjoy shooting, but there is always that competitive nature in everyone. And let's not forget that some of us can't help but brag about how much $$ we got invested in our equipment. Sorry, but it's human nature.

[wheelgun7360]

i own several of the high $ guns mentioned in this discussion. do they buy me a 40 every time?? no no no. i know several shooters that have been shooting longer than me and still don't shoot 40's with their high $ guns. i would guess that lon pennington could take a taurus revolver and shoot a 40 with it. it takes skill, practice, and a little luck sometimes to shoot a perfect score. i don't compete to win every match. i shoot against myself. just because a shooter shoots a freedom arms, moa, or other custom high $ gun does not guarantee a perfect score. i agree some of the semi-custom guns are sometimes more accurate than a off the shelf one, but that does not guarantee a good score. i bet that a contender has won more matches than the semi-custom gun. oh, by the way i've got $750 in my freedom arms 44. so as far as it goes shoot what you have and have fun. allen